Transforming Productivity Metrics with Mike Perrone, Chief Operations Officer at Prodoscore

This week on the Revenue Insights Podcast, Guy Rubin, founder and CEO of Ebsta, speaks with Mike Perrone, Chief Operations Officer at Prodoscore. 

In this episode, Guy and Mike discuss data-driven productivity scores, bridging employee flexibility with executive accountability, and how to empower sales teams through actionable insights and tailored coaching. 

Mike Perrone is Chief Operations Officer at Prodoscore, an AI-powered and employee-centric data intelligence solution dedicated to making teams more successful. Before working as COO, Mike held the position of Chief Revenue Officer. He has over twenty years of experience in sales leadership, team building, operations management, and customer experience. Mike has also worked for Vonage and Cbeyond. 

• Mike Perrone on LinkedIn
• Prodoscore website
• Guy Rubin on LinkedIn
• Ebsta Revenue Insights Newsletter 

Time Stamps:

• 00:00 – Introduction
• 00:27 – What is Prodoscore?
• 06:34 – Mike’s career path 
• 09:21 – Prodoscore’s tech stack 
• 11:38 – Predicting sales performance through call data
• 14:00 – Creating demand for new tech solutions
• 17:33 – Looking ahead to the future 
• 23:03 – Identifying what good performance looks like at different stages

Highlights: 

What is Prodoscore?

Prodoscore is a productivity intelligence solution. It aggregates data from a wide variety of cloud tools, such as phone systems, Slack, Zoom, and CRM, to produce a productivity score from zero to one hundred. Mike imagines this score like a FICO score, where a lender can digest thousands of financial data points and quickly make a decision. The tool works by using application programming interfaces (APIs) to sync the different cloud tools and collect data. The result is a “blueprint for employee success” that identifies successful and unsuccessful behaviors. 

Looking Ahead to the Future 

Mike says that Prodoscore’s customers have requested more real-time alerts, trend analysis, and actionable insights that will better allow managers to identify key behaviors. Prodoscore is developing these capabilities using programs such as Google’s AI tools, Vertex and Gemini in order to analyze data and offer trend insights along with coaching recommendations. Mike highlights how Prodoscore is creating an employee-facing program akin to a fitness tracker, which will allow employees to see the same trends and data points that management sees. 

Foundational Productivity Habits

Mike notes how ProdoScore does not track any of the later (and often more detailed) stages of the sales process, such as deal management or pipeline closing. Instead, the tool measures what activity level an employee needs to maintain to gather opportunities. For instance, managers are able to get insights into why a sales rep isn’t generating enough leads—perhaps the reason lies in their activity level, rather than deal management skills. The name of the game is identifying and building foundational productivity habits that eventually lead to growth and opportunities. 

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Transcript:

Mike Perrone – 00:00:00: What they want their managers to do, like before a good one-on-one, is they want them to go look into Salesforce, go look into Gong. They want them to go to look at all these different silos, prepare data, find trends, and surface these things for a good coaching conversation with their leader. And really what we’re doing now is taking all that data and building out the trends. So giving them the data and then even giving them recommendations for improvement and even suggested coaching conversations.

Intro/Outro – 00:00:31: Welcome to Revenue Insights. Every week, we’ll be joined by revenue leaders from some of the most successful and highest growing companies. Together, we explore how they built their revenue teams, the journeys that they’ve been on, and the lessons they have learned along the way. Revenue Insights is brought to you by Ebsta. We’re a revenue intelligence platform designed to help revenue teams to build more pipeline, close more deals and retain more customers.

Guy Rubin – 00:01:05: Hello everyone, and welcome once again to the Revenue Insights podcast. I’m delighted that today I’m being joined by Michael Perrone. Michael was the CRO and is now the COO of a business called Prodoscore. Welcome to the podcast, Michael.

 Mike Perrone – 00:01:19: Yeah, nice to be on. Thanks for having me.

Guy Rubin – 00:01:21: Why don’t we start by just giving everyone who’s listening an understanding of what Prodoscore is.

 Mike Perrone – 00:01:25: Yeah, absolutely. So we’ve been around four or five years. Started with the business at inception of Zero Revenue, and we’ve scaled nicely over the years. And Prodoscore is a productivity intelligence solution. When kind of in the name, Prodoscore, productivity scoring. So what we do is we take the, you know, all the employees nowadays use tons of different cloud tools. So there’s things called APIs, which allow us to sync into all these different cloud tools and collect a lot of data. The hundreds, thousands of things employees do on a daily, weekly basis, taking all of that productivity out of their office suite, their CRM, their phone system, Slack, Zoom, right? Capture all of that data and then produce a score from zero to 100. And so I think of it like, a score guy in a way that a lender can digest thousands of financial data points and make a decision quickly. Think of that for leaders, executives to have some visibility into their workforce to almost like build a recipe for like blueprint for employee success. Really understand what the best people are doing to kind of replicate that performance and scale.

Guy Rubin – 00:02:26: Very good. Well, for those that know me will know I’m a big fan of being data driven. We spend a lot of time with our customers analyzing all the signals that lead to revenue in the past. And we connect things like mailboxes and calendars and phone systems. And we try and find out how much momentum or engagement is required with which stake holders, every stage of every sales cycle so that we can build benchmarks and identify risk in the pipeline. So I understand that data driven approach. And it sounds like an exciting business to be part of.

 Mike Perrone – 00:02:50: Absolutely. Yeah. I think it helps you just in kind of your sales, my sales career, at least like you’ve always had quotas. If we take them, just the sales employees, we always have had this end outcome that you measure them to, but you know, the. There’s so much that goes into that end outcome. Right? And instead of working backwards, we want to give organizations like a leading indicator into kind of current performance as well as try to understand that recipe for those top salespeople. Right. And I think that one thing that’s always over my years in sales leadership, that’s been difficult is, hey, be more like guy. You’ll say you’re the top sales guy. Be more like guy. Now, at least you can get some data by those different pieces to, to try to replicate that type of performance.

Guy Rubin – 00:03:31: Yeah. It makes a lot of sense. So, we did a big piece of analysis which you may be aware of our 2024 benchmark report. We analyzed 4.7 million opportunities last year.

 Mike Perrone – 00:03:39: Wow.

Guy Rubin – 00:03:40: And what’s fascinating is that we’ve all invested so much tech in so much money, so much tech over the last year or two or even beyond and still four out of five reps are missing motor.

 Mike Perrone – 00:03:49: Yeah.

Guy Rubin – 00:03:50:

And it’s insane. And in fact, the delta between the top performers and the rest of the sales teams is getting wider and wider and wider every year.

 Mike Perrone – 00:03:57: Sure.

Guy Rubin – 00:03:57: And it’s crazy. And we just need to, you know, narrow is the time for sales teams to grow. And realize how that then into a lot more data driven.

 Mike Perrone – 00:04:04: Yeah. Yeah. No, it is. I think of our sales team and Charlie and the amount of technology that they use now versus previous. Right. So if I think of my sales team, I mean, they’ve got, obviously we’ve got a CRM and they’ve got the email and the office suite, but I think they’ve got, you know, they use a tool called Zoom Info, right. To get all the database. Then you’ve got tools like Sales Loft is which we use, right? For all of your cadence building. And then we’ve got. Different AI tools that do a lot of like, email formatting for you. Then you’ve got LinkedIn Sales Navigator and you’ve got a demo tool. We use Walnut, right? Like there are, I think they’ve got about 10 different tools they’re using on a daily basis from a sales perspective to hit the end result. And it’s fascinating to see which ones get adopted. What are the best people using? How do they put them into their cadences to be successful? And so forth. There’s a whole adoption of tools and what they’re using. Cause there’s a plethora of sales enablement tools out there nowadays that tend to get into the sales teams.

Guy Rubin – 00:05:01: Yeah. No. Absolutely. So you said the business has been going about five years. Can you give the audience some understanding of kind of how what’s the size and shape of the business now?

 Mike Perrone – 00:05:08: Yeah, so we’re about 5 million in revenue. We had a recent Series A funding in December of last year, which has put us into a really good segment. We’ve got a variation of customers, and that’s kind of been, when we first started this thing, our solution could target any type of knowledge worker that’s using cloud tools, right? So the ocean was massive. And so we’ve really kind of segmented where we do really well. And so we focused a lot of our energy on the staffing and recruiting industry, given how many cloud tools they use, you know what I mean? And they’re a very activity-driven business, very similar to sales teams, right? So we do have a big segment in sales, but staffing and recruiting has by far been our strongest industry, followed by legal, right? The legal community’s actually been a great fit for us as well. So we’ve got roughly about 100 clients, about 80 to 100,000 users on the platform. So we’ve done really good from a scale perspective to get it from zero to where we are today. Very good.

Guy Rubin – 00:06:04: And maybe for the audience, it’d be useful to understand a bit about your journey. How did you become this C-level of this business? Where did you come from? And what path did you try to get to where you are?

 Mike Perrone – 00:06:15: Yeah. So I started 20 years ago just as a co-executive, kind of grinding it out door to door type when that was a thing, business to business. And it grew up within an organization for about 10 years, advanced all the way up to kind of VP of sales of that organization. Then I moved on to, and that was a pretty large company. It was called CBN. It had a publicly traded organization. And from there, just met people along the way, moved to Vonage business where we ventured, everyone kind of knew Vonage as kind of the residential home phone. And when kind of we joined on there was like, oh, building off the business unit. So that was an interesting journey, ran direct sales for them. And so my first 15, 20 years of my career was spent predominantly in large organizations, 100 to 300 sales members on that team and very kind of corporate type organizations. And I had met the, his name is Crisantos, who was one of the original founders of Prodoscore. I had met him at Vonage. So he had sold his company to Vonage. He was very big into like APIs and integrating your phone system to a CRM like Salesforce. And like 10 years ago, that was like cutting edge technology, right? Like integrate. If I make a phone call, it’ll log automatically in Salesforce. Today it’s table stakes, but back then it was kind of revolutionary. So he was brilliant when it came to APIs. And so I had met him, talked to him, and he was going to, you know, kind of start up this venture called Prodoscore. And what it was and that type of thing. And at that time we’d done like a beta version of it. And just being a sales leader, my whole career, like I was kind of fascinated by what this thing could kind of bring to the table for revenue leaders from a leading indicator perspective. So, you know, he had brought this idea, this concept, do you want to come over and start this thing from scratch? And so that’s kind of where the journey began about five years ago. So it was from the beginning. And so it was different coming from like corporate structures and big sales teams and training departments to a startup, but wouldn’t change anything. I think from learning and education and excitement perspective, it’s been an awesome five years. Well, it sounds

Guy Rubin – 00:08:20: like it is very exciting. So tell us a bit about the tech stack that you’re using in the greater market side of the business.

 Mike Perrone – 00:08:25: Yeah. So from a sales, so we’re a big Salesforce shop from a CRM perspective. We also use that like service cloud for all our customers. So everything kind of hubs out of Salesforce. It was like part out from a marketing perspective. So we’re very kind of integrated with all our tools. And so we use from a sales perspective, we’re using Sales Loft, LinkedIn Sales Navigator. We use a demo tool to really offer customized demos for our clients called Walnut, which is really cool. It allows you to kind of spin up of an instance of ProtoScore that would be custom for the customer of almost what they would see if they were in our platform. So it allows a lot of customized demos and things like that. So we do a lot of kind of outreach there and more of an ABN targeted approach now on kind of the staffing industry. Now that we’ve settled in on what we want to go after. In the beginning, it was kind of spray and pray all over the place type approach. But, so we’re very Salesforce driven. Everything kind of ties into that. Google Workspace™, Utilize DAW, which has been an awesome tool. I don’t know how I kind of lived without it. I almost use it more for feedback on our customers and from a customer experience perspective as much as I do on a sales side. But just having those insights or you run an hour long meeting and getting all your notes and details versus spending 45 minutes to do a recap email. It’s just, it’s been an efficiency tool from an AI perspective for sure.

Guy Rubin – 00:09:45: We launched our own version of the call recording tools that one had about a year ago. But we now live in a world where there’s so many companies already using something like a call. So we just actually plugin what other customers already using. So frankly, I don’t really care what tool people are using to make a call recording, but the analysis we can do off the back of it is phenomenal. I mentioned earlier, one of the things that we do when we onboard customers is go back a year and find all the missing contacts and activity that never made it to Salesforce. If I was using Gong, we can also analyze all the last year’s worth of call recordings and understand how well or badly the reps are doing their qualification during every sales cycle. And it’s amazing to see the delta between the top performers and the way that they’re dealing with objections or caption the medid for example, versus the rest and sales team. And it really is nine day. Last year we analyzed 1.2 million hours of Salesforce and the delta is huge. You can almost predict if they’re going to be a top performer or not by the data we’ve seen from the core reporting. So it’s fascinating.

 Mike Perrone – 00:10:40: Yeah, no, I mean, it’s just these having these type of tools today versus previous life to try to coach and you know what I mean? Assess why maybe someone is hitting their quota or not hitting their quota. There’s just so much more data around those types of things today to make educated kind of coaching conversations and feedback for your employees.

Guy Rubin – 00:10:59: It’s also there’s so much available now to take away the admin burden from the reps where they now they’ve only got one responsibility, right? All they’re there to do is do the bit that the AI can’t do, right? Which is build the relationship, build the trust, help build that business case and then close the deal. When we were coming up, the amount of tasks that admin that we never actually did it, but we were all responsible for it, right? And now because the AI is responsible for doing all of this logging and extracting the information, it doesn’t, it’s such consistent when the recording on the back end is just so much better. And you can now start to as a say, this is why we’re in a world where this delts between those top and bottom performers is you know, we’ve got great opportunity to shrink it because we can show that be the C players what the A players are doing.

 Mike Perrone – 00:11:41: Yes, absolutely. And especially in the remote world we’re in with a lot of our sales teams, most things are conducted now on video. Most things are done now via you know remote video using these type of tools where you know 20 years ago, most of of my meetings, business to business, were face-to-face, right? Not recorded, not transcribed. And so now that we’ve gone really kind of digital on everything, almost every data point kind of has some type of trail to it.

Guy Rubin – 00:12:06: Oh, absolutely. Are you using a methodology for qualification? Is there one in particular that you lean into?

 Mike Perrone – 00:12:11: Not really. I think what’s interesting about our solution versus kind of things that I’ve sold before, which was a huge learning curve for me, when previous company, I was selling like advanced contact center solutions, right? To a company that’s already using some type of contact center solution, right? Yeah. But it was a very like, there was already a budget in place from a sales perspective, right? Because they were paying for something already. And it was more, you’d find someone coming up on contract or needing a new feature to add to this bells and whistle to make the switch. What’s interesting about our space is that I don’t think I’ve had an opportunity yet where I’m like taking them off something that they use similar to us in implementing our solution, right? So it’s very blue ocean in the fact that like every opportunity you go into, you’re having to educate, right? And kind of build the budget, build the value around this type of solution and why you should invest in this versus let’s say you’re on Salesforce and I’m going to move you to Microsoft Dynamics 365 CRM, right? It’s kind of like a rip and replace type scenario. And that’s mostly what I did in my sales career prior to this. You have to kind of build the need, build the value, build the budget, build the value, build the value, build the value, build the value, build the value, in a whole new kind of ecosystem of a space because it’s very, it’s not commonplace out there to have a solution like ours out.

Guy Rubin – 00:13:28: There’s pros and cons there, right? But it’s a very different motion because you kind of almost have to educate the buyer of what that challenge is.

 Mike Perrone – 00:13:34: Yeah. So when it’s like qualifying, we’re looking for like a catalyst, why they need this visibility. So most companies would come to ProtoScore and they’ll have, they’ll say, hey Mike, we need visibility into our employees. And then it’s really like, underneath that layer, what does that mean? And in some big catalysts that we’ve had that move the needle for a solution like ours is like remote and hybrid. So we can measure remote and hybrid productivity. And so you have guy would have a score when he’s in the office, he would have a score when he’s remote, or you just have all remote employees or you have hybrid. And we’re really able to start to kind of debunk that gut feel of like, you know, I need everyone back. They’re not as productive or maybe they are more productive remote, right? So that’s like, when we say like, what’s the qualification we’re trying to understand, what are they really trying to solve with their people from a visibility perspective. And that would be an example of one that that kind of moves the needle. We have like one of the largest government agencies in the country out of New York in their catalyst was after COVID they tried to get everyone back to Manhattan. And so there’s everyone back to the office and most of these people are commuting an hour and a half. They didn’t want to come back. So they instituted like a telecommute policy where, if you want to work remote Prodoscore exists, right? And so they had about 6,000 employees elect into that program. So there’s, I kind of, I’m always seeing this kind of the employee wants flexibility, the executives want accountability, and it’s kind of that our visibility kind of merges those two things that the employee gets their flexibility. The executives are getting the accountability and they kind of have a best of both worlds.

Guy Rubin – 00:15:13: That makes a lot of sense. Well, it sounds like an exciting place to be in. What are your plans over the next kind of year or two? What do you see looking at 2025 in New York?

 Mike Perrone – 00:15:21: Yeah. So when they see a whole role, I’ve kind of taken on more product so I can kind of speak to the vision of where we want to go. So we collect all these rich data points, right? We know when people start their days and their days, remote office, what tools they use. I mean, there’s, we know also guy like how they collaborate, like how they, if you’re a leader and you’ve got 10 people underneath you, like I know if you guys are in meetings together or if you’re slacking or teams chatting them or emailing them, like all of these data points funnel in. And so what customers are asking us for is like, can you make it more like alert me more on the data? And so what we’ve been working on me and Adrian, who runs my data science team is we’ve been working on models of taking all of this data. We have putting it into different types of trend analysis, right? So like if I was looking, if I’m the manager, if you are my employee, I want to look at guy’s data, the last 30 days versus the previous 90 days, pull out any trends there. But I also want to look at guy versus the top 20% in his role that he’s in and try to understand trends there, right? Increases decreases. I want to take all those trends. And so what we’re working on is we’ve got, we’re using like we’re big Google Cloud Platform company. So we’re working with like their with Vertex and Gemini on their AI stuff to be able to take these trends in surface, different surface, those trends that are digestible for the manager, as well as then provide recommendations and how you should coach that individual. And it’s using the type of role that they’re in. Like if guy was a recruiter, we know what recruiters are supposed to do. And it’s unbelievable, these large language models using generative AI based off the data that you have to prepare that leader for a one-on-one. And I think that’s what I’ve always, and that’s what our customers are, are asking are our front line managers, how can you use this data to enable them to be better leaders? And I was just at a conference kind of showcasing this product to leaders at the booth. So it’s like rapid demo. I get to get all this feedback on the product. And what I hear is like what they want their managers to do, like before a good one-on-one is they want them to go look into Salesforce, go look into Gong. They want them to go to look at all these different silos, prepare data, find trends, and surface these things for a good coaching conversation with their leader. And really what we’re doing now is taking all that data and building out the trends. So giving them the data and then even giving them recommendations for improvement and even suggested coaching conversations. And it’s been fascinating so far to see how kind of generative AI in these large language models can almost all the years of learning as a sales leader of what to do, though these models really kind of teach very well on what I’ve learned over the last 20 years of running a good one-on-one. A lot of that’s already kind of in there. So it’s really exciting what we can do there from a coaching and recommendation. Perspective for the leaders to help coach their people. And then we’re also working on taking those same trends and data points, but surfacing them for the employee. So think of, you know, God, you’re a top employee, right? And let’s say you’re using a Fitbit or like Apple Fitness, right? And like when you’re working out, you like to look at that data, right? If you’re not working out, you’re probably not looking at your Fitbit, right? But when you’re working hard, we want to surface those type of achievements and recommendations for the employee as well. So we’re very pro the employee from our solution perspective is, we want to keep enhancing that side of it.

Guy Rubin – 00:18:46: Yeah, I think we seem to, I think we’re probably very similar spaces. So one of the things we look at a lot is the, you can’t deliver the right insights to the customer if we haven’t got the data itself. So we sit in this world we call revenue intelligence. And really when we do pipeline inspection meetings, we’re prompting the VNC players with what they need to know, right? What does good look like? And how is this deal pacing against what good looks like? And here are seven things that are going better than expected. And here’s four things that are going as well as expected, right? Normally, at this stage of the sales cycle, we expect you to have this much engagement with the CFO, for example, I suppose what we had to do to deliver those insights is we had to build an AI engine that was able to fix the deals you gave to associated to the deals that close one are lost in the past. So we go right through all the historical traffic, all of those call records, the meeting activity, the email traffic, we’re trying to find out how multi threaded the customer was during the sales cycle was and which personas usually see job titles and email signatures. So which personas are engaging with and how much engagement so we’ve got our engagement score. So you can see how much engagement is required for the stakeholders to achieve a certain outcome. And that’s the vehicle in B2B sales, right? B2C doesn’t work the same way. But you but we know the relationships drive revenue in B2B sales.

 Mike Perrone – 00:19:58: Absolutely. And I say like, when you think of Prodoscore, we’re just a data point, because the stuff you’re doing, that’s that other data point that you need the pipeline management, there’s the sales that all those different intangibles. Remember, Prodoscore is driven off, you’re just paying the activity, right? So we’re going to be more on the leading indicator stuff that builds the pipeline pipeline from there to close. That’s not what Prodoscore is, right, where we’re analyzing all of those details in the who, you know, the champions of the deals in that type of stuff. What are they doing from an activity perspective that produces kind of a productivity score. And there are ties to that of what leads to the end outcome. But when you think of the end outcome, a lot of it falls in in kind of your data when it comes to pipeline management in those types of things. I’m more of the you get to the point where you’re meeting with a sales rep, and they have zero pipeline, or not generating enough pipeline. That’s where you go to, it doesn’t matter what you do to try to close the one deal that you generated, you don’t have enough pipeline. Let’s look at the type of activity that you’re doing to produce build the proper opportunities.

Guy Rubin – 00:20:59: Very good. Roughly how many centers have you got now?

 Mike Perrone – 00:21:03: Yeah, yeah. So it’s a team of five. So we’ve gone and we fluctuated here and there over the years, like with BDRs. And we tried that it’s this industry is not, it’s been very difficult to like kind of go like a BDR opener model in the fact that you’re not going to call someone in like BDR, my example would be like, let’s say Salesforce and BDR, they make 1000s of calls, eventually get the one like, oh, yeah, we’re actually looking at at Salesforce. That’s the opener. All right, pass it on with proto score, it takes a very business conversation to even open up if this is something that you should be looking at, right. So it’s a little bit more advanced and a little bit challenging from an outbound hunter perspective. Most of our opportunities come from partners or come from referrals, or from marketing someone looking for a productivity solution to kind of solve one of those catalysts that they were potentially looking to solve. So it’s definitely been a little bit challenging on the outbound hunting, I tried outside BDR organizations, I’ve tried to do it internally, it’s just it’s tough to generate pipeline with that approach in the kind of an industry that it’s not commonplace yet.

Guy Rubin – 00:22:08: Yeah, I think that’s fair. I think the more complex the proposition, the sales resource needs to be even at the very top of the funnel. And yeah, just look at the data we picked up. Partner referrals represents just 10% of pipeline last year, across the the four or seven million opportunities we analyzed, but it actually generated just over 30% of the revenue. So the deals that come from partners tend to be larger, but also the quantitative the win rate seems to be higher as well. So it works really into those partner relationships.

 Mike Perrone – 00:22:36: Interesting. So you’re looking at all of those opportunities in 10% came from partners, but 30% of it came from revenue.

Guy Rubin – 00:22:44: So the revenue number 10 from partners.

 Mike Perrone – 00:22:47: Yeah, so they’re closing at a higher rate and probably bigger type logos.

Guy Rubin – 00:22:50: Yeah, absolutely. So leading into the partnerships and community as well, we see community is a big part of that. And I’m quite involved with the community because it’s a really, really enjoyable bit that they’re doing there. So-

 Mike Perrone – 00:23:01: Yeah, very cool.

Guy Rubin – 00:23:02: Very good. Well, listen, Michael, I’ve really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today. If our audience wants to engage with you, how do I go about doing that?

 Mike Perrone – 00:23:10: Yeah, just they can go on our website, in kind of sell out a form or they can send me an email at [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn. Love to chat about these types of conversations.

Guy Rubin – 00:23:19: Very good. Well, listen, we’re not going to talk about your poor choice in football teams. Unfortunately, I’m a Spurs fan, so I can’t talk either. But listen, thank you so much for joining us. I’m sure the audience have really enjoyed your input and I’m sure they’ll reach out to you if they need to. So thank you very much for your time.

 Mike Perrone – 00:23:37: Yes, thank you.

Guy Rubin – 00:23:38: Thanks, Michael.

 Mike Perrone – 00:23:39: Thank you very much.

Intro/Outro – 00:23:42: Thanks for listening to Revenue Insights. If you want to learn more, subscribe to our newsletter and we’ll deliver every episode straight to your inbox. If you have any questions, feel free to connect with us on LinkedIn. Our links will be in the episode notes. See you next week.